Interview with Matthew Kille of Zeoneo

(Ed. This is a personal interview with Matthew Kille of Zeoneo, not an interview of the company as a whole)

CAM: What were your computing experiences and influences pre-Zeoneo?

I suppose you could say that I taught myself to program starting with a Commodore C64 sometime in the mid-80s. One day I picked up the manual and started to type in some simple programs.

I continued dabbling like this when I got my first Amiga in 1989. Learning with really simple things like modifying the startup-sequence of an AmigaOS boot disk to create customised versions of Workbench. Later I moved onto using a Public-domain C compiler called 'NorthC'. (That was painful, on my floppy based machine, though at the time I didn't know any better!)

When the time came to finish school and start college, I was interested enough in computers to choose a course on the subject. That was more than a decade ago now, and since then the majority of my time has been spent in academia, in computer software research and development. For the past 8 years I have specialised in artificial intelligence, evolutionary and adaptive systems; culminating in a Ph.D. thesis with the subject "human-like computer interfaces".

CAM: Why did you decide to start your own games company and what drew you to support the AmigaDE?

I gained an interest in different programming languages, having already experienced many already - assemblers, basics, scripts, procedural, functional, declarative and parallel - so when AmigaDE came along I was interested to try something different.

I had been developing games in my spare time for many years before AmigaDE came along, and always found it very rewarding. Being impressed with the Intent framework around which AmigaDE was based, and seeing the huge potential it had, I began also developing some demos and games in Virtual Processor (VP) assembler. I found VP assembler to be a very comfortable 'language' with which to work, and development came easily.

The first thing I wrote in VP assembler was the 'Tunnel demo', a textured spinning tunnel effect which later become a popular program for demonstrating the platform independent nature of AmigaDE at Amiga shows at the time. This simple program was written in just a day, after only three days of me receiving the SDK. This in itself says something about nature of the VP language.

At the time it was fascinating to see images of demonstrations where my simple demo was shown running on a device, which I had never even seen, let alone developed for. I had experienced Java right from the time when it was just starting out, so I was at least familiar with the concept of binary portability. But this was the first time I had actually seen something written on a desktop machine with nothing but that desktop machine in mind, then running on something like a handheld PDA, with a completely different screen, memory and CPU configuration. At the time that was seriously impressive, and to a certain extent, still is today. (Three years on I think we have all got used to the idea now, and the concept doesn't seem quite so special, but the potential advantages this system provides are still just as valid.)

Anyway, after an extended period of learning and experimentation, there is a strong desire to begin putting theory into practice. Coming to the end of one chapter in my life, I found myself in the position of being able to turn what was before simply a hobby into a full time pursuit. From this starting point, and with a pretty good understanding of the markets AmigaDE was aimed at, I made the decision to expand development and formed the company.

CAM: After three years, do you have any words of wisdom for others who may want to start their own games company?

Ask me again in three years. I might have some useful advice by then. :)

CAM: Was it a conscious decision to develop for the mobile computing market? Why choose that over say the desktop or console development?

The mobile market has a number of advantages for us, as a small developing company. The biggest advantage is that games for these devices do not require the same level of funding and development time as would be required for desktop and console games. I'm not saying that we couldn't produce games for such devices, just that it would take us much longer to do so until we get more resources/developers involved. Zeoneo prides itself on the quality and attention to detail in our games, and we wouldn't want to compromise that.

CAM: Do you share the Amiga view of devices being commodities or do you see people still associating a phone with making calls, a PDA with business applications, a console as the gaming machine and the desktop for home documents, email and the Internet?

Well, personally, I still think of a phone as a phone, and a game console as a game console. This is mainly because these particular devices were designed for those particular purposes and that is how they work best.

However, I can see that the world is (slowly) changing, with devices being expected to fulfil multiple roles. As device designers take these requirements onboard, the outcome is devices that are more generic and more capable. For example, just a couple of years ago PDAs were particularly bad at supporting games. Few devices provided proper sound, and many wouldn't allow more than a single button to be pressed at the same time. (Rather unfortunate if you want to play a game like Planet Zed where you want to steer your ship and fire at the same time!) Today things are much better, and the situation continues to improve.

CAM: With the Orange SPV, the XDA, the Sony Ericsson P800, the Nokia Communicator and the Nokia N-Gage, the mobile phone companies seem to believe that some people want more and yet the price of these devices seems to make it more sensible to buy a pure phone and a GameBoy Advance? Do you see a single mobile device as being achievable given the compromises required for every function that is laid on its shoulders?

I don't believe that there really needs to be compromises. It's just that they haven't found the right hardware configuration yet, and are not taking full advantage of all the features they already have.

One advantage in particular of a phone with game playing features, or a game device with phone features, is that it allows online gaming. This is an area that is still only in its early stages, and if it becomes anything like the desktop online gaming scene, then it could be hugely significant. This is something we at Zeoneo are very interested in.

CAM: Zeoneo burst onto the scene in 2000 with Planet Zed and Convex. Why did you release two such very different products and how did you find the AmigaDE as a development environment?

Convex was the first product and was developed at a time when nobody was quite sure how fast Intent/AmigaDE on a modern PDA could perform. So a puzzle game, (where there isn't too much onscreen motion), was a safe bet. Once we got the first AmigaDE build for the PDA, we were able to see what was possible, and work on Planet Zed began. We have learnt a lot since those earlier products, and the gained experience is helping shape our current/future products.

Since the original release of these games, we have been able to extend the features of these games, such as adding music by Simon Burgess and Mark M Salud, and additional graphics by Kevin Saunders.

CAM: How do you go about designing a 'level' in Planet Zed? It seems everyone's dream to think 'okay, some fast enemies here, then I'll hide a turret here and put a big bomb over there' but as someone who regularly downloads Quake levels, there really is an art to good level design.

It was mostly trial and error, actually. ;) The level editing software for Planet Zed was rather simple so it wasn't easy to work with. The best strategy turned out to be placing scenery and waves of attacking aliens in mostly random locations, with little or no design to it, and then play testing the level to see what it looked like, then making adjustments. This was quite a lengthy process. In hindsight I probably should have spent more time developing the level editor!

CAM: For your next product, you created Crossword Evolution, another puzzler but a much more traditional one. Why did you decide to do such a different project from the obviously arcade influenced Convex and Planet Zed?

The crossword project started when Milan Pollé joined the company early last year. Milan was already an experienced AmigaDE developer, but we needed to introduce Milan to all the in-house development tools and libraries that we already had available, (all part of a development kit called Reflex™, which is also known as RDK™). The best way to learn about something is to use it, and a crossword game seemed like as good a project as any other. A short time later Milan really surprised us by returning with a product, which looked and felt great and we simply had to extend development to make it a commercial product.

CAM: Crosswords, by their very nature draw a wide cross section of people to them who are not typical of the device owning, game playing technophile. How will you encourage them to make the switch to a digital product and stay with it?

It wont be easy to encourage existing 'pen and paper' crossword fans away from their daily newspaper unless we can provide features which enhance the whole experience. With this in mind we have added features, which you simply don't get with more traditional formats. A prime example, even if it is slightly over used by some, is the ability to reveal the answer, or tease the answer out one letter at a time. There are other features like being able to check your own answer without revealing it, and retrieving the derivation of an answer. (Cryptic crosswords.) One of the biggest advantages is that you can store and index many hundreds of puzzles, all on a single small device.

CAM: Crossword Evolution looks very professional and plays well but in the end it is just a 'player' for crosswords. How do you intend to create the crosswords themselves, especially given that there are such high standards in paper crosswords, and indeed the many different types of crosswords?

We looked into the option of creating the puzzles ourselves, but soon realised that the world of crossword puzzles is much larger and more complicated than we first thought. There are many different styles of crossword, some unique to particular countries and some styles which are simply very difficult to create.

So instead we began contacting and recruiting some of the best known crossword authors from around the world, a number of which have many years experience writing crosswords for top name newspapers.

Some these authors contacted us themselves, when they heard about the product, and we would like to hear from other authors too - particularly those from non-English speaking European countries. (If they happen to be reading this interview!)

CAM: With your fourth project, Invasion, you seem to have gone back to the arcade again? Is that something you enjoy or is it a better market?

Yes and no. It is certainly something we enjoy, and that always makes a project easy to work on, but it's not clear whether it is a better market or not. From the response we have from the public, contacting us via email, or commenting via our registration form, the majority seem to be more interested in the crossword game than the shoot'em up game. At first, this might seem rather surprising, but in actual fact it makes sense if you think about the current demographic of PDA users: the majority are likely to have a PDA for business use, presumably making them more likely to be the more mature thoughtful type, rather than the 'hardcore gamer' type. This is an interesting observation, and one that needs to be considered when judging one type of game against another.

We believe this current trend is starting to change though, as more PDAs enter the second-user market, and prices fall. The hardware performance/advantages a typical PDA has over something like a GameBoy Advance will start to show more as time goes on. Newer devices will start to come onto the market, with similar performance characteristics to current PDAs. Supporting all of these devices will be difficult/expensive for most developers, and this is where I think AmigaDE will be perfectly placed to take advantage.

CAM: When creating Invasion, what thought processes went into deciding what you wanted to do? The screenshots certainly don't suggest at just another space invaders clone?

Although the game shares more than a parsing resemblance with the Space Invaders classic, (a very deliberate ploy, might I add), the dynamics of the game itself are quite different. We wanted to capture the fun of the dodge and shoot nature of these particular types of games while also lavishing some of the most advanced and explosive graphical effects ever seen on a handheld device. Make no mistake, this is no ordinary blast everything in sight game.!

CAM: What is the status of both Invasion and Crossword Evolution? When can the public get hold of them?

Both projects are somewhat behind schedule, for reasons such as needing to secure sources of crosswords and put in place the supporting infrastructure, but even so we wont be rushing anything. Having said that, both projects are on the edge of completion and we hope to announce their release sometime in the near future.

CAM: A great deal has been made lately of the lack of originality in games development. What are your thoughts on that and how does Zeoneo deal with that danger?

Ha! You're talking to a company that on the surface has arguably released nothing but a series of non-original games so far. :)

But you make a valid point. There is indeed virtually no originality in games these days. There seems to be no limit to the number of similar looking, similar feeling, FPS games that software houses are producing these days. I suspect this has a lot to do with the huge budgets required to produce these games, and it probably appears safer to develop a copy of something which was successful, rather than take the financial risk to try something different.

Game developers have a difficult job these days, as the world has already seen so many different types of games that finding a truly original idea is next to impossible. The approach we have been working with at Zeoneo has been to take some good existing ideas and try to improve on them. Gameplay is our first priority, closely followed by the visual experience and attention to detail. A significant amount of the development time for our products is spent in the final 'polishing' phase, where we play test for hours, make minor adjustments, and then play test some more.

CAM: Zeoneo has three products on the Microsoft published PocketPaks, which are currently advertised on the www.compusa.com website. What do you think of this 'game card' concept?

The PDA software market currently consists almost entirely of downloadable content only. So providing content on another medium is a smart strategy, since there is currently very little competition. You also gain the sales advantage of giving the customer something to look at, pick up and study. This along with the feeling that when paying for something, they're getting something tangible for their money.

CAM: You recently announced a product for the upcoming AmigaOS 4.0, Candy Factory 2, a new version of an old product. Can you tell us why you decided to support AmigaOS 4.0?

We tend to choose projects that we are interested in, and we're all still great fans of AmigaOS. I still use my Amiga daily, and expect to continue doing so in the future. Therefore deciding to support AmigaOS 4.0 was an easy decision.

CAM: Your first four products are games and yet for the desktop Amiga you chose a graphics application? Does that represent a personal preference between mobile devices and desktops? Will we see non-gaming applications created by Zeoneo for the AmigaDE and games for the AmigaOS?

Quite likely. :)

CAM: A lot of people will have Candy Factory already for AmigaOS 3.x. How do you intend to convince them to buy the new version for AmigaOS 4.0? How will the application become 'better' and why do you think that the new Amiga hardware and operating system is the appropriate platform for the application?

Candy Factory was one of the first products to take full advantage of the introduction of Amiga PowerPC hardware some years back, and that enabled the software to run faster and provide a much better user experience. With vastly better hardware today, the user experience will be even better, with new features that before were simply not possible.

CAM: There is a lot of FUD (fear-uncertainty-doubt) about the new Amiga hardware and operating system. While you obviously can't reveal a lot, what is your overall impression of the work going on?

I must say that I am SERIOUSLY impressed with the work I've seen being done on AmigaOS 4.0 by Hyperion and other developers. I'm particularly pleased that, despite huge pressure from the community to finish the project quickly, they are standing their ground and taking the necessary time to make sure the job is done well first time. This is important, because this next version of the OS sets the foundations for what will come in the future. This platform needs to be solid before other developers like Zeoneo are comfortable enough to commit time and money into developing for it.

After all, it's not legacy support that will determine whether the platform is a success or not. It's the new software that will take the platform forward.

CAM: Can you let us in on any new product plans for both the AmigaDE and the AmigaOS?

Sorry, but we have a policy of not talking publicly about projects until they enter the final stages of development. This safeguards us from complaints when we axe a project halfway through it's development -- something that happens more often than people might suspect!

CAM: Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and letting the CAM readers learn more about you, your company and its products.

Thanks for inviting me.